Atty William Ausman:
Hi, I’m William Ausman, founder of 805 Law Group. Today we have a very special podcast. Not only is this our very first podcast, but we’re also talking about a subject that’s near and dear to my heart. Something I hear people talk about all the time is custody, and how the courts are going to decide your custody and visitation issues. So with me today is Kevin J. Ramey. He’s a fantastic attorney. He does an amazing job. And I’m really excited to drill down on these subjects and discuss that with him. So without any further ado, I’d like to introduce Kevin Ramey and have him tell us a little about something about himself.Â
Atty Kevin Ramey:
Thank you for having me. I’m happy and proud to be your introduction to this podcast, and your first interview. So I’m a San Luis Obispo High School graduate. I’m a UC Davis graduate with a bachelor’s degree in biological sciences and I have a JD from Santa Clara University. I’ve been practicing since 2010, almost exclusively family law that time period.
Atty William Ausman:
Wonderful, Kevin. I know that there’s a high volume of cases that you see coming through the courts on a regular basis, and that you’re in front of all the family law bench officers here locally. So do you kind of find that that’s a great view to see what custody visitation orders the judges are deciding?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
At least for our local jurisdiction, I feel like I am in a pretty good spot to make some or have some feelings about the types of orders that are coming out of our local courts. Admittedly, I have practiced a little bit in other jurisdictions around the state, in particular, San Mateo County, and Alameda County. I resided for approximately 10 years in the greater San Francisco metropolitan area. And that’s where I got my start. So I would say that in terms of our local judges or our local San Luis Obispo judges, the Santa Barbara judges a little bit and the Bay Area judges, I am in a pretty good position to talk about that.
Atty William Ausman:
Fantastic. So one of the questions I hear a lot, and that comes up frequently is how is the court gonna decide my child custody issues? Do you hear that quite frequently?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
I do. That’s something that everybody comes in wondering, right? Most people who are coming to a family law proceeding, they’re coming to wait for the first time. They’re lost, they’re confused, and they’re coming to me. And they’re asking me, how the judge makes these determinations, what kinds of determinations are likely to be made. And they’re just looking for a little bit of insight on that.
Atty William Ausman:
What I like to do is, is give our viewers a treat, and kind of drill down on some of those issues. So what do you see? What do you see the courts are really focusing on when they’re deciding these custody visitation issues?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
I mean, first and foremost, the courts are always looking at what is in the best interest of the minor child. There are a lot of different elements to that. But that is the bottom line. Sometimes in determining what’s in the best interest of the minor child, they’re looking at possible histories of domestic violence or alcohol abuse, drug abuse, that kind of thing. Sometimes they’re looking at which of the two parties is more likely to make sure the other one has a lot of, you know, enough time with the child. So that both parents can bond with the minor child. Sometimes they’re looking at even things like a child’s opinion. All of that depends on the age of the child, the number of siblings and the child’s parents.
Atty William Ausman:
Great. So what the courts drilling down and looking at this is interesting, they’re pulling different issues apart, you identify domestic violence as a big issue. You divide, you pulled apart, who’s going to provide the ongoing regular and frequent contact with the other parent. So those are the things the court’s got big picture focus on. So drawing a little bit more on that. What other issues do you think are biggies that parents can take a look at?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
Sure, Once you’re sort of past these largest issues, domestic violence, frequent and continuous contact, the opinions of the child, health, safety, and welfare of the child. Then we’re starting to look at more detailed issues such as who is providing. Well, let me say you have sat back and say that stability is also sort of first and foremost in the best interest of a child. So that they want to make sure that these children have stable healthy households. So, for example, if one parent is moving a lot, and the other person has remained in one location for throughout the marriage, throughout the separation, maybe has the same job, maybe that kind of thing where, where they are providing great stability for the child, that parent is probably going to be preferred in the custody determination over a parent who’s hopping house to house county to county, state to state. So if a parent is more able to provide a stable situation for the child, then that parent is probably going to be preferred.
Atty William Ausman:
Great. And so when the courts are looking at this, and looking at the child’s routine, they’re looking at the child’s school schedule, they’re looking at who’s caring for the child, what kind of care they’re looking at the schools, are looking at the grades, what other things are the the court really looking at to determine that best interest standard? That’s the overarching theme here?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
Sure. So I think, to me, they are looking at the age of the child, they are looking at the current circumstances of the job, they’re looking at, I think the historical circumstance or the historic circumstances of the job. So when you first get involved in one of these cases, typically what happens is the court makes some temporary visitation schedules. And a temporary visitation schedule is generally just to maintain the status quo, they’re not really going to be doing a full analysis of the best interest until you get down and are trying or in or getting ready to introduce some evidence about what the best interest is. And a lot of people are frustrated by that. Because with a lot of parents going, looking to get this first custodial order, they’re really looking to define the parameters of their relationship with the child going forward. And a lot of people I have found find it to be a loss when the court just orders the status quo. But I would encourage people who are in this situation not to view that as a loss. But just to understand that temporary orders, the purpose of them is to maintain the status quo, rather than to establish the parameters of the relationship with the child going forward. So typically, what I’ve been seeing lately, at least in our local County, where the courts are terribly impacted, and really don’t have time to have you present evidence, or at least not present a lot of evidence when they’re making a temporary schedule, is that you will get a temporary or an interim schedule, that just covers the parties and their custodial time with the child from that first hearing. And they’re setting them out for trial someday, sometime down the road. It’s unfortunate that our courts are so impacted. So those trial dates tend to be four or five, six, even ten months down the road, where you’re stuck under this interim schedule, until you are at a position where you can introduce all the evidence you want to introduce about custody visitation,
Atty William Ausman:
That’s a great point. Is that you may not in this temporary order to first blush, be able to present all the evidence that’s necessary for the court to make a good look at what is the best interest of the child. So I see often that that people are getting ready for this first hearing. They want to provide their attorneys the best information, the best facts, the best evidence that you can take and simply put before the court. So if you’re talking to me, a parent that wants good, solid custody, visitation, or whatever it is, should I gather the give to you, so you can make an impression on that court?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
Sure. I always tell people, that the most important thing is to be detailed, just to be organized and to keep good records of what is happening. So I think that in the early stages, assuming it’s sort of a, what I would call a simple custody order where both parties are relatively good parents. There’s not allegations of significant drug abuse, there’s not allegations of domestic violence. What you need to put forward is your the historic time that you’ve spent with the child, your historic duties as far as child rearing, how things have been since separation and what you have done to maintain your relationship with the child since separation. The kind of things that you want the child to do together, the kind of things that you are doing to promote stability, but also like academic success, to promote their growth in their various interest in extracurricular activities. Photos, I think are really valuable. Photos of a parent and their child interacting together, maybe going camping, maybe going to the beach, and doing kind of leisure activities together to give the court some sense of what your life is like together. I think it’s really valuable if you can line up witnesses who can prepare a declaration that can speak to what your historic duties were in terms of child-rearing. For example, if you can bring in witnesses that are willing to prepare declarations for the court that say, Hey, I’ve known this family for five years, I’ve interacted a lot with them together as a family also with, you know, one party and the child individually, without the other party, I’ve observed the he was primarily responsible for cooking for putting the children to bed if a child got hurt, while while they were there and they observed the child got hurt, he or she, you know, this one party is the one who was generally responding. I think that carries a lot of weight with the court. Also, calendars are great. So I tell people very frequently keep a calendar, you know, keep a log show when the child was with you, when the child was with the other party, what you did, while you were together, what you fed the child, you know, how have you prepared that food if you prepared it, if you went out? Those kinds of things are all enormously valuable and showing what your relationship with the child is, and trying to establish what custody can be even on an interim basis before you get to court and get to introduce all your evidence to show you know, have all your witnesses questioned and examined all of your evidence introduced, marked and put before the court. Some of that you can do on an interim basis, as long as you do it early at the beginning. So I would say that once you have an interim custody order in place between then and when you go to trial, it’s probably too late to try and adjust that a lot in between. The court is going to make changes if there’s an emergency, but after an emergency, it’s pretty difficult to get the court to move off of that interim schedule before you get to court. So it’s really about preparation, need to make sure you have all your ducks in a row that you’ve got all the evidence you want the court to consider, even on an interim basis when making that first custody order. And I think that that’s that’s the approach to maximising the amount of time that a parent gets to spend with their child pending trial on the matter.
Atty William Ausman:
Fantastic. So moving forward, and and looking at some of those things. You mentioned extracurricular activity. So if a child is involved in soccer, or softball or require dance is is it important to keep them involved in those types of activities?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
Oh, absolutely. I mean, if you start pulling the children out of those activities, you are not providing the kind of stability that the court wants to see. I also think if you start pulling children out of those activities, you are not showing that you have the right parent to have custody because you are negatively impacting the child’s quality of life. I’m not saying if those activities are like interfering with schoolwork or causing the child to get in trouble in school or anything like that. I’m not saying that there are not reasons to remove those activities. I’m just saying that it makes sense to be cautious. When you’re making those kinds of decisions. I would also say it is generally not a good idea to make those decisions unilaterally. It is a much better decision to make those decisions with input from the opposing party. That’s really frequently hard, particularly in the early stages of a divorce, when the two parties tend to have raw feelings and tend to not get along very well in the early stages of divorce. But it’s important to remember when you’re proceeding on these custody issues, but the court doesn’t care about you. And they don’t care about the opposing party. They only care about the child. The child’s needs and the child’s interests are tantamount. So you need to make sure you are focused on that. And doing your best to put aside the hurt feelings, doing your best to put aside any bitterness or whatever you have whatever feelings you have for the other party and focus on the child that’s going to be including them in these decisions, even though you probably don’t want, it’s going to mean including them in any decisions that can affect the sort of the day-to-day life of the child beyond bed times? Are you going to feed them for dinner or that kind of things, that may still be information you want to give to the other party, but you don’t need to ask the permission before you make those changes, I would say.
Atty William Ausman:
Great. So moving forward, not just looking at the child custody evaluations, want to talk a little bit more about how parents can support their children while they’re going through a child custody battle? What do you find that they can do?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
The most important thing is to leave the child out of the battle, there’s no need to embroiled these kids into these custody evaluations, it is devastating to a child to have been put in the middle of these and be made a big size. So what I would say is, it’s really important not to address the issues of custody visitation that we’re talking about in the courtroom, with the children, older children may ask, and even then, I would put them off and say something along the lines of “No, that’s really a decision for the court to make, or that’s a conversation I’m having with your dad. But we haven’t decided anything.” It’s important, I think, in a whole and functional marriage, that the parents are on the same side. And I don’t think there’s anything different about that, that would impact whether it’s important for the parents to be on the same side when you’re going through a divorce. It’s still important to have the parents present a united front and to make sure the child does not believe they are being placed in the middle. And this is devastating one because it I mean, it just is, is detrimental to the psyche of a child. But particularly with these older children, they’re going to use that as a way to manipulate their parents. And once that sort of starts, you’re really going to start seeing behavioural problems with these kids. So it’s a bad road to get down to and mash these kids in the proceedings. If you start doing so you’re gonna see really, unwelcome behaviors from your children, in all likelihood. So I would say don’t talk about the proceedings, don’t talk about the issues between the parents, and be supportive, be unified. But don’t get into the nuts and bolts of the litigation.
Atty William Ausman:
Fantastic. We appreciate those tips. So on a temporary order. What would work best for you? How best can a parent work with you and helping you present at trial or permanent custody visitation?Â
Atty Kevin Ramey:
Hearing that information responsiveness is the best way for a parent to help their attorney at any point. So it’s all about when your attorney is asking you for information, asking you for questions asking you for potential witnesses, maybe they’re asking you to prepare a declaration. Maybe they’re asking you to go out and get a police report. Maybe they’re asking you to talk to friends, neighbours, maybe they’re asking you to talk to teachers give them contact information, the more of that information can provide and the more quickly you can provide that information, the greater the chances of a favourable outcome and these customers disputes. I would also say, listen to your attorneys, because we know we’ve been through the you know this whole process before we know what we’re looking for. And when we’re telling you how you want to talk to the opposing party, we’re telling you how you ought to interface with the child. We’re telling you the do’s and don’ts of communicating through, like if we say to communicate exclusively through text message and email, which I say a lot, because that leaves a paper trail, you should do that. You pay us for a reason. And so he will give you that kind of advice and insight. So I would encourage people who have an attorney, to try and listen to your attorney. I know it’s hard because parents always feel like they know what’s best. And they know what’s best for their child and they’ve lived their whole life without the need of consulting with an attorney. But when you get into this venue, when you get into this these litigation battlegrounds, it’s important to listen to your attorney because that’s what you’re paying them for. Their advice is usually good.
Atty William Ausman:
Fantastic. So you talked about this dynamic of communication and you encourage often people to use text or email to document that. One thing that I hear more and more often is people talking about our family wizard, and talking parents. Can you tell me a little bit about these apps and how best a parent can use them?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
Sure. So our family wizard, talking parents. I mean, there’s a series of apps something we connect is one that I use frequently in Southern California. They’re all basically the same thing, which is a combination, calendaring device and communication device. So you can put in all of the children’s appointments into the app you can put in custodial time into the app, and you can communicate back and forth with one another. I particularly like our family wizard, because it has a tone metre. So it can help parents who maybe are a little bit snippy with one another, to dial back that attitude, and send more thoughtful, more attorney approved messages that are less likely to inflame already hurt feelings, and less likely to bring excessive emotion into the case, and frankly, are more likely to get that parents lose custody as a result of poor co-parenting.
Atty William Ausman:
Okay. So, I know we’ve kind of covered a lot of subjects. But I’d like to give the listeners that have given us the time and patience of listening through this kind of some top tips that they should and shouldn’t do when looking at a custody battle. What would you say those were?
Atty Kevin Ramey:
Sure. So number one, is going to be about how you interact with the other party, I will say that if you interact in a peaceful, calm way, rather than approaching everything as an attack, you are more likely to be successful, particularly when you are dealing with an exceptionally hostile person on the other side. The more balanced the more calm you can bring to your interactions, the more likely you are to be successful. I would also say that you should be doing your best to keep things as stable for the child as you can to keep things as regular and prevent disruption to their life prior to separation just as much as you can. The more you can do that, the more likely you are to be successful. And then finally, I would say only follow advice of counsel, if your attorney is telling you that there are certain people you shouldn’t be around, certain ways to communicate. Maybe certain foods you should avoid, maybe get in touch with the child’s paediatrician that you maybe didn’t know before, get in touch with the childcare providers, get in touch with the teachers. You should do all of those things that just make sure that you’re doing what you need to do to support your attorney while he’s supporting you to win your case.
Atty William Ausman:
Thanks, Kevin. We really appreciate you sharing that information to our listeners. We have lots of great information if you want to check us out at 805lawgroup.com. We’ve got other videos there. We have a lot of great information that we really enjoy sharing with folks. If you’d like further information, feel free to give us a call at 805-466-4800. We’d love to sit down and talk with you about your situation. Please check out our other podcasts. We have a lot of fun putting these together. We love sharing that information with you. And thanks for coming
